Tightly vs loosely wound coil springs?

80sFast said:

Vajingo said:

Spring bind will occur sooner with the tightly wound. But, do you have enough suspension travel to cause spring bind?

Hengguang supply professional and honest service.

well this is what I'm trying to figure out really. Looking at the picture (and from the comment made by the guy that took it) there's about 1/4" or 3/8" gap between each coil so with 10 spaces that's 2.5" to 3.5" of up travel. That doesn't seem like much for a tundra. Am I thinking about this all wrong? 

It's not a strut, so you have to consider motion ratio. From that picture if the spring has 3" of travel that probably equates to ~5" at the wheel which isn't a ton but is certainly more.

Also worth noting about the two photos from the original post, the second one appears to have the wheel off which means the spring is uncompressed so that's not a direct comparison.

There are a couple questions to help select the best suspension for what you need below:

-What will I be doing with this car? What is the goal of changing the aftermarket suspension? Just lowering it? Performance? a compromise of the two? Is comfort a factor?
-Daily driver? AutoX/track? Drag? or a mix of the 3?

The next question is..

Do you want springs or coilovers?

let's start off with this question first because it probably can help you decide faster.

The original suspension on a civic is in a spring/shock combo. This is where the spring is seperate from the shock and the shock is replaced whenever it blows. In the aftermarket section, there are many types of springs to choose from anywhere from 1/2inch drop to 3inch drops. These springs have it's pros and cons.

Pros:

-cheaper than coilovers
-can be used with stock shocks (although not recommended)

Cons:

-once it is lowered, you cannot change the height
-usually have spring rates that a stock shock cannot handle forcing you to buy new shocks.
-if the spring is short (meaning really low drop) it can affect shock performance and prematurely blow the shock. Spring can unperch itself and "wobble", possibly cause binding in the suspension also.



Before we go into what kind of options you have we will have a little more 101 on springs.


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Springrates 101
----------------------

Spring Rates are one of the components that change how the car handles. When I was buying my suspension I was looking for how spring rates affect the way the car handles. As a general rule of thumb

Stiffer rear spring rates will cause the car to oversteer more.

As this is true, there is also a way of making the car turn with other components of the suspension setup but that's for another faq. If the rear is 66% stifer than the original stock rear rate and the front was 60% stiffer than the original front spring rate, the car will have a slightly more oversteer nature. Of course this does not mean the car will magically turn by itself, it just means there will be a tendency for the car to rotate the rear more than the front. In general there are two different types of springs: linear and progressive.

Linear

This is a spring that has the same spring rate when uncompressed to full compressed. This spring rate will not change with force.

Progressive

This type of spring rate is variable. As there is more weight compressing the springrate the spring rate goes higher. This is ideal for street applications as for small bumps, it is soft to increase ride comfort but when there is heavy weight transfer like a car turning, it can stiffen up.

So which one is better? Linear or progressive?

Ideally, it depends. For a street car, where you need all sorts of different applications to ONE spring setup, you want progressive. This is the most universal as it can handle the hard braking as well have better ride comfort. Many stock vehicles have progressive spring rates. Eibach makes many popular spring rates as well.

Linear is for racing, and is more predictable. It is also cheaper to make which results in more affordable. Most racing teams use this setup as they have multiple setups for different applications. Ideally, this is reccomended if you have one specific application but.. when money is tight this may be the only option.

Comfort

Contact us to discuss your requirements of coil spring for suspension parts. Our experienced sales team can help you identify the options that best suit your needs.

So is comfort a factor? Majority of the time, it is a matter of compromise of performance vs comfort. You need to sacrafice some comfort in order to get bettter performance IF you do not want to pay alot of money. There are suspension setups that cost alot but it manages comfort as well as performance. We will get into that more (when I have time to write some more!)

In this thread I will be using springs in the units of Kg/mm with the short term of K. kilogram over millimmeters denotes how much force(kg) is needed to move the spring one millimeter. In USA we use lbs/in which is pounds per inch moved. The conversion factor between the two is roughly the number 56.


Kg/mm to lbs/in = 10kg/mm multiply by 56 = 560lbs/in
lbs/in to Kg/mm = 440lbs/in divide by 56 = 7.85kg/mm


In reality, 10kg/mm is 559.97lbs/in but 56 is a good rule of thumb for converting the spring rates.

There is also a whole debate about whether the rear spring rate should be larger than the front one. Ideally autocross guys will tell you to have a setup where the rear is stiffer than the front. Although this proves itself on the track, there are others who use stiffer front spring rates and gets the same results. They use other suspnesion components to compensate for the slight understeer the front spring rates give (ie. rear sway bars) Before I get anymore complicated, lets go into the springs.




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Springs
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Now, there are many options for springs. There are softer springs like Neuspeed, H&R and TEIN. There are also stiffer springs like dropzone which you want to avoid if you are using a stock shock.


As a reference for comparision, here are stock spring rates of some stock cars. I believe the 96-00 civic have the same stock spring rates as a 92-95 civic too.


For 96-00 Civics (EJ6-8 and EM1 chassis codes)
96-00 EX - 165F/80R (P/P)
99-00 Si (EM1) - 201F/99.8R (P/P)
97, 00-01 ITR - 250F/250R (L/P)
GS-R - 200F/95R (P/P)
CTR - 240/240 (L/P)

*L = Linear
*P = Progressive


Tein S techs 1.5" drop


Neuspeed Sport 1.8" (F) 1.2" (R)


H&R Sport 1.5"-2"


Eibach Pro kit 1.0"-1.5"


There are more options but these are some of the sofest rides springs out there. For more info, you should look up the spring rates on the springs and compare them to the stock spring rates.


Also you want to look at the drop height when it comes to springs. When you buy a spring, it will drop you car. That's it. There won't be any adjustments to raise it because you think its too low now or lower it because you think its too high. Be sure you know what you want before you buy it or you might have to spend more money later on. Look up some pictures of people who use the springs you want and see if you like the drop height. if not, You either have to buy new springs or get koni yellows (we'll go into that later)

With the spring/shock combo, this means you need to look at the shock options as well since the stock shock almost always will not have enough dampening to keep up with the spring rates.


Here are a few of the popular options people use.

-Tokico HP
-Tokico Illuminas
-KYB AGX
-KYB GR2
-Koni Red
-Koni Yellow

A big note to people out there is that the Tokico Hp (widely nicknamed Blues for the color of the shock) are

ONLY

15% stiffer than an OEM shock. Most springs out there are more than 15% stiffer so it doesn't really match up quite well. Because of this, the spring will outpower the shock causing what has been known to be "bounce" to occur.





When riding over a bump, and the spring compresses, the shock's job is to push the the spring back to it's normal position and hold it back into it's natural position. If the spring is outpowering the shock, the spring will continue to bounce like a pogo stick until it settles back to its' natural position. This is called "bounce" (really oscillation but car tuners call it bounce) and is something many tuners do not realize is happening and think that is the way it should be.


another note is that the KYB GR2s are OEM replacements meaning that they are no better than OEM shocks..





On to the better shocks.

KYB AGX, and Tokico Illuminas (whites) are the next step up. The shocks already come stiffer than the Tokico Blues and can hold really well. Also these have adjustable dampening on the shock so you can make the shock stiffer if necessary for the springs. This comes in handy especially if the car is designed for daily driver use as well as having some track time. You can set the shocks to full soft so you can hit the bumps softer for your back or you can set it to stiffer for the track when you want less body roll. These shocks are one of the best bang for buck as they don't cost too much more than the Tokico Blues (maybe 40bucks each more) and they provide good dampening for majority of the springs out there. These also have external adjustment on the shock to allow for easy changing of stiffness. Just stop the car open the hood and turn the little knob from 1-5 being 5 stiffest.





On to one of the bests.

Koni reds and Koni yellows are one of the best shocks out there. Koni Red (specials) are designed for the daily driving in mind and it also has the ability to adjust dampening. The only con I think is that because it is a special, the shock needs to be removed from the spring to adjust the stiffness. This can pose a "ease" problem as not many people will take that much effort to stiffer their car. This is where the Koni Yellow (Sport) comes in. These konis are stiffer by a little compared to the Koni Specials but they were designed for the track user who daily drives in mind. These shocks have adjustable perches on their shocks so it can allow for adjustment in height even with a set spring height. They also have external adjustment knobs on the top of the struts to allow you to have instant access to make changes to the stiffness of the shock while in the pits of a track or on the street. Another major plus from koni is that to the original owner of the shocks, there is a limited lifetime warranty. This means if you find that the shocks blow and are in the fields of their warranty, you can send them back in and they will send you a new set for the cost of shipping! Also another plus is that Koni has the tuner in mind and will revalve the shocks to your liking if the pre-set ones off the counter are not stiff enough for you. The biggest downfall though is when you are on a budget, Konis are really expensive.






Recap on shocks:

Tokico Whites
KYB AGX

both are cheap and effective. "best bang for buck"
------------------
Koni red and yellow

when you want the best and can afford it.



So now that you know what kind of shocks there are, you can make the decision on what to get.


Hope this helps on the spring/shock combo setup.


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Coilovers
-----------------


now you are thinking, hey, springs aren't the best for me and I want to be able to adjust my height to exactly what I want.

There is one more option to the spring/shock combo that might suit your needs. These are called coilover sleeves. Basically the a spring with a threaded metal sleeve that allows the perch to be adjusted so it can change the height of the car.

here is a ground control Coilover sleeve


A big plus when using these is that you can adjust your height if you are not happy with it the first time. One of the biggest problems is that majority of these coilover sleeves are stiff springs and if you are using a stock shock, there will be alot of bounce. If you use Koni yellows with a reputable company like Ground control, the suspension setup is almost flawless. Ground control is one of the best companies because when you order coilover sleeves, you have the ability to order custom spring rates (if you know what you are doing) or just use the pre-set spring rates that they provide. Word of advice is that run the pre-set settings unless you know what you are doing. It would be more beneficial if you just left it alone if you dont know. The GC/Koni yellow combo has been proven in the honda world to be one of the best riding and performing setups out there. (also pretty expensive - $800-)

This is one more addition to the spring/shock combo.


-----------------------
Full bodied Coilovers
-----------------------


Alright so the spring combo, is not the best for you. You want something that is pretty much designed for the track. There are many options nowadays and there are so much you can choose!

Some of the popular brands is TEIN, APEXi, Buddyclub, Endless ZEAL, Omnipower, D2, KSport.


Why would you want coilovers? Well, Fullbodied coilovers have a major plus. The shock was intended to run with that specific spring so the dampening was made to follow that spring. This means you don't have to worry about 'bounce' because the manufacturer already took care of it. *at least we trust them to*

On certain coilovers, there also is 2way adjustable height. Similar to the coilover sleeve above, there is the spring perch adjustment as well as the shock height itself can be adjusted.

Here is a TEIN Flex


As you can see from the picture, the lower green part of the shock can also be turned on the threads to allow the shock to change the height rather that spring height.

Another plus is that higher end coilovers come with pillowball top mounts on the top. As seen on this flex coilover picture, you see the top hat is from Tein. This means you don't need to use the stock top hat like you would have to when you use a spring/shock combo. The pillowball mount replaces the rubber bushings and puts a bearing in there instead. The shock turns left and right when the steering wheel is turn and the pillow ball mount allows for less friction making it easier for a car without power steering to turn instead of two rubbers rubbing against each other.

On the higher end coilovers, they will also have the ability to adjust the dampening. This allows the car to ride soft during daily driving but when going to the track, it can be finetune to handle the way the driver wants it. Most highend coilvers have at least 16way adjustment.



So what are your options?


Well let's start with the ones that don't hurt the budget as much.

Tein Basic


This is really Basic. It has an ajustable height from the spring perch and that is about it. This is really aim towards those who are looking for a coilover to just adjust height and daily drive. It uses stock top hats as it doesn't come with pillow ball mounts.

Price is in the range of $650.

A major plus for tein is that they are servicable in USA in the event that the shock wears out.

Omnipower Coilovers



These are one of the best bang for buck. They have two spring rates combos to offer. They have 12k 10k and 10k 8k offer. these coilovers are fairly stiff for that they are. No adjustment but 2 way height adjustable.

range from $600-$700


There are other entry level coilovers but they are roughly the same.

PIC Apex Coilovers



While I have no real experience with these coilovers, these have come to my attention as potential coilovers for people. They offer multiple spring rates combos: P1 8k/6k, P2 10k/8k, P3 12k/10k, R3 12k/14k, L2 10k/8k rally. From what I see, this is great choice of spring rates as well they have background in racing because they are sponsoring Hondas in NASA.

It also has come to my attention there is an APEX challege where if you are not satisfied with these coilovers before 60days, you can return for a full refund. This is the only coilovers I've seen that has this offer! It might actually be worth trying.

Price Range: SUJA1Motoring is offering these to JDMCC for 675shipped!


high models..


Tein SS



of course this doesn't look much different from the Tein basics but there is one major difference. it has adjustment on the suspension. This has a 16way adjustment on the shock stiffness which makes these a good idea coilover for many. The Tein SS do not come with pillowball mounts but it does have an option to be purchased from Tein. The springs are the same as tein Basics and are rather soft compared to most other coilovers.

Price range: $800- (depending on pillowball mounts)

Omnipower Adjustables



These coilovers were created since many complained that omnipower did not have adjustable coilovers. These are good similar to the Tein SS but they have 2 way adjustable and include the pillowball top hats already. The thing is that these have fairly stiff springs 12k,10k, or 10k, 8k.

Price range: $850-900

PIC Select Coilovers



These are the adjustable versions of the Apex ones from PIC. These are a good choice if you do want adjustability. Their selling point they claim is that they are true 8way adjustable dampening. Like the others, these have 2 way adjustable spring height.

Price Range: SUJA1 selling it is as $950 shipped!

There are others in this range like KSport or D2 where they offer 2 way height adjustment as well as pillowball top mount and dampening adjustability. I'm just doing a few for now to give you guys an idea of what to look for.


Tein Flex



This is the step up from the Tein SS. It comes with pillowball top mounts as well as 2 way height adjustable, and 16way adjustable dampening. One of the plus on this setup is that the threads are teflon coated so that they resist rust something the regular teins suffer in high rust areas.


Price Range: $+


APEXi N1




there are many versions of these coilovers but I've only experience the 99spec N1 coilovers. These are 2way height adjustable, 16way dampening adjustable as well as pillowball mounts.

Price range: $- (depending on model)

Buddy Club N1 Pro Spec



These are similar to the N1 ones also. 2way height adjustment, 15way adjustable dampening, pillowball mounts. It also is one of the higher quality ones. Spring rates are similar to the APEXi with 12kg/mm and 6kg/mm


Price Range: MSRP is $



There are more high end coilovers, but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone doesn't have experience with coilovers as those coilovers need more fine-tuning to make full use of them. Unless you see alot of track time, stick to the coilovers under $.








-----------------------------------------------------------------



Now that you decided if you want coilovers or springs, you can ask yourself what you want to do with your car. Drag? Track? Daily driver?


with those running daily driver who just want to lower the car for looks with some handling. You can run the lower end coilovers to save money as well as some softer springs with the ideal height you want with tokico blues or step up to adjustble shocks.

Track/Daily

You will want to have adjustability on your shocks so you can run different settings for the track as well as daily driving.

Drag/Daily

This is a tough one. You need to look into spring rates and figure out what is the best for a car that is designed to drag. Majority of the time, many of the cars will not need much. A rule of thumb is that a stiffer rear for our Civics will help with better traction as the car won't sit and lift the front wheels up.

Omnipower makes drag coilovers as well as skunk2 with some stiff rear coilovers designed for those who have drag racing in mind (Due note these are rediculously stiff for daily driver)

You can't really go wrong with any decent setup as majority of our cars will not have that bad of a sit to affect traction.

Pure Track:

use some high end custom ground controls/revalved konis or custom coilovers. Many are not listed like Tein RA, Ohlins, Spoon etc. If you are going this way, I suggest you do further research as my knowledge isn't up to par for this setup. (I hope it will soon!)

Pure Drag:

Omni power drag coilovers or customize ground controls on full stiff in the rear. You need to do further research as I do not have alot of knowledge in this area again.



------------------------------------
Quick Tips and Final Notes
--------------------------------------

the suspension you select will not just magically make your car handle like God's Chariot (nothing can ) but remember that suspension is a team of parts. There are sway bars, bushings, strut bars, as well as the suspension. Not to mention that tires and rim selections will make a big difference. ie. Having 13inch steelies with $ suspension wont help you turn better if your tires can't handle it. It is all a team and if there is a great team but one person that is not up to par, that one person is a weak link resulting in failure. I know i'm harsh but.. make sure you don't decide to have a great suspension for track racing and cheap out on tires and think it will be ok. It will make your car lose potential. Just some food for thought before you go out buying the biggets and best thing. Sometimes, if you get the best, the rest of your car needs to be the best in order to make

FULL

use of it.


-make a budget
-Figure out what you can afford
-find out what you want to do
-make sure you can buy other things to compliment your suspension choice (tires, strut bars, sway bars)
-have fun tuning!




Disclaimer: Also this is just a guide. This knowledge is based on what I have figured out over the years and I have no responsibility on what you do to your car.

---------
Helpful Links
---------
www.tein.com
www.apexi.com
www.koni-na.com
www.tokicogasshocks.com
www.neuspeed.com
www.omnipower.com

(spring rates thread)
(pictures of hatches on lowering springs)

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Revision Last Updated: (11/13/)
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-.04.03
original document
-.11.13
-made some grammatical errors, added stock suspension rates, reorganized some parts, added tips and final notes, fix broken links to pictures, added helpful links section Last edited by LowTEC-Derbo on Wed Nov 14, 3:34 am, edited 4 times in total.

Alot of people are having trouble with aftermarket suspension. I notice everyday that many people ask what is best? To tell you the truth there is no ONE best suspension. It all depends on application. I decided to write something to help educate some people with some general information about suspension. Here goes nothing!There are a couple questions to help select the best suspension for what you need below:-What will I be doing with this car? What is the goal of changing the aftermarket suspension? Just lowering it? Performance? a compromise of the two? Is comfort a factor?-Daily driver? AutoX/track? Drag? or a mix of the 3?The next question is..let's start off with this question first because it probably can help you decide faster.The original suspension on a civic is in a spring/shock combo. This is where the spring is seperate from the shock and the shock is replaced whenever it blows. In the aftermarket section, there are many types of springs to choose from anywhere from 1/2inch drop to 3inch drops. These springs have it's pros and cons.-cheaper than coilovers-can be used with stock shocks (although not recommended)-once it is lowered, you cannot change the height-usually have spring rates that a stock shock cannot handle forcing you to buy new shocks.-if the spring is short (meaning really low drop) it can affect shock performance and prematurely blow the shock. Spring can unperch itself and "wobble", possibly cause binding in the suspension also.Before we go into what kind of options you have we will have a little more 101 on springs.----------------------Springrates 101----------------------Spring Rates are one of the components that change how the car handles. When I was buying my suspension I was looking for how spring rates affect the way the car handles. As a general rule of thumbAs this is true, there is also a way of making the car turn with other components of the suspension setup but that's for another faq. If the rear is 66% stifer than the original stock rear rate and the front was 60% stiffer than the original front spring rate, the car will have a slightly more oversteer nature. Of course this does not mean the car will magically turn by itself, it just means there will be a tendency for the car to rotate the rear more than the front. In general there are two different types of springs: linear and progressive.This is a spring that has the same spring rate when uncompressed to full compressed. This spring rate will not change with force.This type of spring rate is variable. As there is more weight compressing the springrate the spring rate goes higher. This is ideal for street applications as for small bumps, it is soft to increase ride comfort but when there is heavy weight transfer like a car turning, it can stiffen up.Ideally, it depends. For a street car, where you need all sorts of different applications to ONE spring setup, you want progressive. This is the most universal as it can handle the hard braking as well have better ride comfort. Many stock vehicles have progressive spring rates. Eibach makes many popular spring rates as well.Linear is for racing, and is more predictable. It is also cheaper to make which results in more affordable. Most racing teams use this setup as they have multiple setups for different applications. Ideally, this is reccomended if you have one specific application but.. when money is tight this may be the only option.So is comfort a factor? Majority of the time, it is a matter of compromise of performance vs comfort. You need to sacrafice some comfort in order to get bettter performance IF you do not want to pay alot of money. There are suspension setups that cost alot but it manages comfort as well as performance. We will get into that more (when I have time to write some more!)There is also a whole debate about whether the rear spring rate should be larger than the front one. Ideally autocross guys will tell you to have a setup where the rear is stiffer than the front. Although this proves itself on the track, there are others who use stiffer front spring rates and gets the same results. They use other suspnesion components to compensate for the slight understeer the front spring rates give (ie. rear sway bars) Before I get anymore complicated, lets go into the springs.------------------------Springs-----------------------Now, there are many options for springs. There are softer springs like Neuspeed, H&R and TEIN. There are also stiffer springs like dropzone which you want to avoid if you are using a stock shock.As a reference for comparision, here are stock spring rates of some stock cars. I believe the 96-00 civic have the same stock spring rates as a 92-95 civic too.For 96-00 Civics (EJ6-8 and EM1 chassis codes)96-00 EX - 165F/80R (P/P)99-00 Si (EM1) - 201F/99.8R (P/P)97, 00-01 ITR - 250F/250R (L/P)GS-R - 200F/95R (P/P)CTR - 240/240 (L/P)*L = Linear*P = ProgressiveTein S techs 1.5" dropNeuspeed Sport 1.8" (F) 1.2" (R)H&R Sport 1.5"-2"Eibach Pro kit 1.0"-1.5"There are more options but these are some of the sofest rides springs out there. For more info, you should look up the spring rates on the springs and compare them to the stock spring rates.Also you want to look at the drop height when it comes to springs. When you buy a spring, it will drop you car. That's it. There won't be any adjustments to raise it because you think its too low now or lower it because you think its too high. Be sure you know what you want before you buy it or you might have to spend more money later on. Look up some pictures of people who use the springs you want and see if you like the drop height. if not, You either have to buy new springs or get koni yellows (we'll go into that later)With the spring/shock combo, this means you need to look at the shock options as well since the stock shock almost always will not have enough dampening to keep up with the spring rates.Here are a few of the popular options people use.-Tokico HP-Tokico Illuminas-KYB AGX-KYB GR2-Koni Red-Koni YellowA big note to people out there is that the Tokico Hp (widely nicknamed Blues for the color of the shock) are15% stiffer than an OEM shock. Most springs out there are more than 15% stiffer so it doesn't really match up quite well. Because of this, the spring will outpower the shock causing what has been known to be "bounce" to occur.When riding over a bump, and the spring compresses, the shock's job is to push the the spring back to it's normal position and hold it back into it's natural position. If the spring is outpowering the shock, the spring will continue to bounce like a pogo stick until it settles back to its' natural position. This is called "bounce" (really oscillation but car tuners call it bounce) and is something many tuners do not realize is happening and think that is the way it should be.another note is that the KYB GR2s are OEM replacements meaning that they are no better than OEM shocks..On to the better shocks.KYB AGX, and Tokico Illuminas (whites) are the next step up. The shocks already come stiffer than the Tokico Blues and can hold really well. Also these have adjustable dampening on the shock so you can make the shock stiffer if necessary for the springs. This comes in handy especially if the car is designed for daily driver use as well as having some track time. You can set the shocks to full soft so you can hit the bumps softer for your back or you can set it to stiffer for the track when you want less body roll. These shocks are one of the best bang for buck as they don't cost too much more than the Tokico Blues (maybe 40bucks each more) and they provide good dampening for majority of the springs out there. These also have external adjustment on the shock to allow for easy changing of stiffness. Just stop the car open the hood and turn the little knob from 1-5 being 5 stiffest.On to one of the bests.Koni reds and Koni yellows are one of the best shocks out there. Koni Red (specials) are designed for the daily driving in mind and it also has the ability to adjust dampening. The only con I think is that because it is a special, the shock needs to be removed from the spring to adjust the stiffness. This can pose a "ease" problem as not many people will take that much effort to stiffer their car. This is where the Koni Yellow (Sport) comes in. These konis are stiffer by a little compared to the Koni Specials but they were designed for the track user who daily drives in mind. These shocks have adjustable perches on their shocks so it can allow for adjustment in height even with a set spring height. They also have external adjustment knobs on the top of the struts to allow you to have instant access to make changes to the stiffness of the shock while in the pits of a track or on the street. Another major plus from koni is that to the original owner of the shocks, there is a limited lifetime warranty. This means if you find that the shocks blow and are in the fields of their warranty, you can send them back in and they will send you a new set for the cost of shipping! Also another plus is that Koni has the tuner in mind and will revalve the shocks to your liking if the pre-set ones off the counter are not stiff enough for you. The biggest downfall though is when you are on a budget, Konis are really expensive.Recap on shocks:Tokico WhitesKYB AGXboth are cheap and effective. "best bang for buck"------------------Koni red and yellowwhen you want the best and can afford it.So now that you know what kind of shocks there are, you can make the decision on what to get.Hope this helps on the spring/shock combo setup.------------------Coilovers-----------------now you are thinking, hey, springs aren't the best for me and I want to be able to adjust my height to exactly what I want.There is one more option to the spring/shock combo that might suit your needs. These are called coilover sleeves. Basically the a spring with a threaded metal sleeve that allows the perch to be adjusted so it can change the height of the car.here is a ground control Coilover sleeveA big plus when using these is that you can adjust your height if you are not happy with it the first time. One of the biggest problems is that majority of these coilover sleeves are stiff springs and if you are using a stock shock, there will be alot of bounce. If you use Koni yellows with a reputable company like Ground control, the suspension setup is almost flawless. Ground control is one of the best companies because when you order coilover sleeves, you have the ability to order custom spring rates (if you know what you are doing) or just use the pre-set spring rates that they provide. Word of advice is that run the pre-set settings unless you know what you are doing. It would be more beneficial if you just left it alone if you dont know. The GC/Koni yellow combo has been proven in the honda world to be one of the best riding and performing setups out there. (also pretty expensive - $800-)This is one more addition to the spring/shock combo.-----------------------Full bodied Coilovers-----------------------Alright so the spring combo, is not the best for you. You want something that is pretty much designed for the track. There are many options nowadays and there are so much you can choose!Some of the popular brands is TEIN, APEXi, Buddyclub, Endless ZEAL, Omnipower, D2, KSport.Why would you want coilovers? Well, Fullbodied coilovers have a major plus. The shock was intended to run with that specific spring so the dampening was made to follow that spring. This means you don't have to worry about 'bounce' because the manufacturer already took care of it. *at least we trust them to*On certain coilovers, there also is 2way adjustable height. Similar to the coilover sleeve above, there is the spring perch adjustment as well as the shock height itself can be adjusted.Here is a TEIN FlexAs you can see from the picture, the lower green part of the shock can also be turned on the threads to allow the shock to change the height rather that spring height.Another plus is that higher end coilovers come with pillowball top mounts on the top. As seen on this flex coilover picture, you see the top hat is from Tein. This means you don't need to use the stock top hat like you would have to when you use a spring/shock combo. The pillowball mount replaces the rubber bushings and puts a bearing in there instead. The shock turns left and right when the steering wheel is turn and the pillow ball mount allows for less friction making it easier for a car without power steering to turn instead of two rubbers rubbing against each other.On the higher end coilovers, they will also have the ability to adjust the dampening. This allows the car to ride soft during daily driving but when going to the track, it can be finetune to handle the way the driver wants it. Most highend coilvers have at least 16way adjustment.So what are your options?Well let's start with the ones that don't hurt the budget as much.Tein BasicThis is really Basic. It has an ajustable height from the spring perch and that is about it. This is really aim towards those who are looking for a coilover to just adjust height and daily drive. It uses stock top hats as it doesn't come with pillow ball mounts.Price is in the range of $650.A major plus for tein is that they are servicable in USA in the event that the shock wears out.Omnipower CoiloversThese are one of the best bang for buck. They have two spring rates combos to offer. They have 12k 10k and 10k 8k offer. these coilovers are fairly stiff for that they are. No adjustment but 2 way height adjustable.range from $600-$700There are other entry level coilovers but they are roughly the same.PIC Apex CoiloversWhile I have no real experience with these coilovers, these have come to my attention as potential coilovers for people. They offer multiple spring rates combos: P1 8k/6k, P2 10k/8k, P3 12k/10k, R3 12k/14k, L2 10k/8k rally. From what I see, this is great choice of spring rates as well they have background in racing because they are sponsoring Hondas in NASA.It also has come to my attention there is an APEX challege where if you are not satisfied with these coilovers before 60days, you can return for a full refund. This is the only coilovers I've seen that has this offer! It might actually be worth trying.Price Range: SUJA1Motoring is offering these to JDMCC for 675shipped!high models..Tein SSof course this doesn't look much different from the Tein basics but there is one major difference. it has adjustment on the suspension. This has a 16way adjustment on the shock stiffness which makes these a good idea coilover for many. The Tein SS do not come with pillowball mounts but it does have an option to be purchased from Tein. The springs are the same as tein Basics and are rather soft compared to most other coilovers.Price range: $800- (depending on pillowball mounts)Omnipower AdjustablesThese coilovers were created since many complained that omnipower did not have adjustable coilovers. These are good similar to the Tein SS but they have 2 way adjustable and include the pillowball top hats already. The thing is that these have fairly stiff springs 12k,10k, or 10k, 8k.Price range: $850-900PIC Select CoiloversThese are the adjustable versions of the Apex ones from PIC. These are a good choice if you do want adjustability. Their selling point they claim is that they are true 8way adjustable dampening. Like the others, these have 2 way adjustable spring height.Price Range: SUJA1 selling it is as $950 shipped!There are others in this range like KSport or D2 where they offer 2 way height adjustment as well as pillowball top mount and dampening adjustability. I'm just doing a few for now to give you guys an idea of what to look for.Tein FlexThis is the step up from the Tein SS. It comes with pillowball top mounts as well as 2 way height adjustable, and 16way adjustable dampening. One of the plus on this setup is that the threads are teflon coated so that they resist rust something the regular teins suffer in high rust areas.Price Range: $+APEXi N1there are many versions of these coilovers but I've only experience the 99spec N1 coilovers. These are 2way height adjustable, 16way dampening adjustable as well as pillowball mounts.Price range: $- (depending on model)Buddy Club N1 Pro SpecThese are similar to the N1 ones also. 2way height adjustment, 15way adjustable dampening, pillowball mounts. It also is one of the higher quality ones. Spring rates are similar to the APEXi with 12kg/mm and 6kg/mmPrice Range: MSRP is $There are more high end coilovers, but I wouldn't recommend them to anyone doesn't have experience with coilovers as those coilovers need more fine-tuning to make full use of them. Unless you see alot of track time, stick to the coilovers under $.-----------------------------------------------------------------Now that you decided if you want coilovers or springs, you can ask yourself what you want to do with your car. Drag? Track? Daily driver?with those running daily driver who just want to lower the car for looks with some handling. You can run the lower end coilovers to save money as well as some softer springs with the ideal height you want with tokico blues or step up to adjustble shocks.You will want to have adjustability on your shocks so you can run different settings for the track as well as daily driving.This is a tough one. You need to look into spring rates and figure out what is the best for a car that is designed to drag. Majority of the time, many of the cars will not need much. A rule of thumb is that a stiffer rear for our Civics will help with better traction as the car won't sit and lift the front wheels up.Omnipower makes drag coilovers as well as skunk2 with some stiff rear coilovers designed for those who have drag racing in mind (Due note these are rediculously stiff for daily driver)You can't really go wrong with any decent setup as majority of our cars will not have that bad of a sit to affect traction.use some high end custom ground controls/revalved konis or custom coilovers. Many are not listed like Tein RA, Ohlins, Spoon etc. If you are going this way, I suggest you do further research as my knowledge isn't up to par for this setup. (I hope it will soon!)Omni power drag coilovers or customize ground controls on full stiff in the rear. You need to do further research as I do not have alot of knowledge in this area again.------------------------------------Quick Tips and Final Notes--------------------------------------the suspension you select will not just magically make your car handle like God's Chariot (nothing can) but remember that suspension is a team of parts. There are sway bars, bushings, strut bars, as well as the suspension. Not to mention that tires and rim selections will make a big difference. ie. Having 13inch steelies with $ suspension wont help you turn better if your tires can't handle it. It is all a team and if there is a great team but one person that is not up to par, that one person is a weak link resulting in failure. I know i'm harsh but.. make sure you don't decide to have a great suspension for track racing and cheap out on tires and think it will be ok. It will make your car lose potential. Just some food for thought before you go out buying the biggets and best thing. Sometimes, if you get the best, the rest of your car needs to be the best in order to makeuse of it.-make a budget-Figure out what you can afford-find out what you want to do-make sure you can buy other things to compliment your suspension choice (tires, strut bars, sway bars)-have fun tuning!Disclaimer: Also this is just a guide. This knowledge is based on what I have figured out over the years and I have no responsibility on what you do to your car.---------Helpful Links--------- http://civic-eg.com/viewtopic.php?t= (spring rates thread) http://civic-eg.com/viewtopic.php?t= (pictures of hatches on lowering springs)-------------Revision Last Updated: (11/13/)--------------.04.03original document-.11.13-made some grammatical errors, added stock suspension rates, reorganized some parts, added tips and final notes, fix broken links to pictures, added helpful links section

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